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What do Other People Say?

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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:05:20 -0500
From: "jay rutledge" 
Subject: GAsmbly> Empire
To: "teaparty" , 

The Constitution is for a government of Empire as Patrick Henry stated and
the cult of the Constitution worships prosperity and power.

By force of arms and persuasion the government of the Consitution made its
emergency scrip the world's reserve currency, the world's trading currency,
and the world's settlement currency.  If a foreign country wants to bank
globally, import, or export or buy American armaments, that country has to
have greenbacks to do so.  This has enabled the United States Government in
all its instrumentalities to create a global commercial playing field tilted
to the advantage of Americans.  Inflation from US government borrowing is
exported.  Foreign resources are purchased cheaply with powerful greenbacks.
Countries that do not play the game according to American commercial
interests are cruise missled, embargoed, and denied grants and loans from
the IMF and World Bank.  The foundation of American power is military
capability and this military capability in turn depends on political
stability in the United States of America and on a reliable revenue stream
to service the usury payments due to holders of bonds denominated in
greenbacks.  The collection efficiency of American government guarantees the
taxes that pay the bondholders.  The result is Empire power and Empire

It was the objective of the Constitution that the government of this
continent be enabled to play this role on the world stage.
Constitutionalists should know the government we have is the one intended by
the document they worship.

So, when someone says "What is the solution ?  or Here is the solution.",
first they should state the problem.
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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:19:37 -0800 From: "Doc Farmer" Add to Address Book Subject: GAsmbly> empire annd constitution To: Speaking as a student of history, not as legalist. The Framers came mostly from two political factions. The northern, NewEnglanders were heavy into commercial empire. They were sailing traders, shunting raw materials to england and elsewhere. And one of their quarrels with the mother country was over developing domestic industry, which the brits recognized would become competition by export. They were Industrial Commercial Imperialists. The other, Southron faction, the virginiancarolinian bunch, were slavers. (also depending on sailors.) It should be no wonder that The Frame, erected by these Framers, allowed and encouraged, was designed to permit an expansionist militaristic empire, and slavery. Today, of course, as in rome before, the slaves are called citizens. fred oerther m.d. **************************************************************** More Christian CommonLaw info at: http://www.christiancommonlaw-gov.org List maintinance Q's at: chuck@christiancommonlaw-gov.org ****************************************************************
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:31:57 -0600 From: "Girty" Add to Address Book Subject: Re: GAsmbly> empire annd constitution To: "Doc Farmer" , >It should be no wonder that The Frame, erected by these >Framers, allowed and encouraged, was designed to permit an >expansionist militaristic empire, and slavery. Today, of >course, as in rome before, the slaves are called citizens. >fred oerther m.d. The purpose of the Constitution was to unite some, very much different, States for the purpose of providing for the common defense and promoting the general welfare. This was to be accomplished while preserving the sovereignty of the individual States. The founding fathers could have chosen to make war between the Colonies to establish unified law, then form one united state, but they all needed each other's help to maintain the liberty they had taken. What the framers allowed and encouraged was free States. The expansionist militaristic empire is the result of a standing army where no appropriations were allowed, for longer than two years. This empire could not continue if the Constitution was adhered to. War conducted without a declaration by Congress is an armed asault by order of one man, not an action of the United States.
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:24:14 -0800 From: "Doc Farmer" Add to Address Book Subject: Re: GAsmbly> empire annd constitution To: "Girty" , Exactly my point. The Framers did not allow free people, but free states, whose citizens are subjects. Their words are not just hypocritical, but misleading, since they were, in spite of their Enlightenment ideals, authoritarians, statists. But of course, their words seldom mean what they say, since they look to their bushwah intellectuals instead of their peasants, for definitions. (As you might guess, I am peasant, altho i did do 22 years in the fast lane, trying to get along with the bushwah Establishment) The purposes of the Constitution were many. I do not deny your interpretation. fred oerther
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Subj: GSL> poopoo and the propellor Date: 4/21/99 10:00:55 AM Central Daylight Time From: minutemn@internetpro.net (Mike Kemp) Sender: owner-gsl@admin.listbox.com Reply-to: gsl@listbox.com To: gsl@listbox.com http://resistance.to > http://thePentagon.com/FullBookJacket > http://GunsSaveLives.com | All: We now see the Hegelian school-shooter method perfected. Of all the instances we have seen which had the potential for major disaster, the previous ones were mere warmups. Now we see a huge body count, no perps to prosecute, and the antis in full cry to disarm America. I can only say that I am immensely saddened that the cowards in charge and the coward in chief had to resort to such a heinous method to embolden themselves to carry out their agenda. Rather than just pass the legislation, or write the executive order, this Hegelian method was employed to give them political cover. It's about time. We all knew that the day would come when circumstances would allow an all-out assault on firearms ownership. Praise the day. Regardless of the style and content of the new restrictions, they will fall on us in a much different way than all of the previous abominations. By and large, the previous attempts are of a nature which do not directly affect current ownership. They address availability, they simply make the box smaller. The new restrictions will undoubtedly require overt action by gun owners. We will be required to list and register our guns, we will be required to go through an FFL holder to sell, ammo and component will be restricted, perhaps arsenal licenses will be required, which will involve ATF inspections for owners of collections, etc. We will be required to publicly bend our knee to King Willy. Again I say, praise the day. For with their boldness comes our opportunity. Are you going to *register* your firearms? Are you going to submit to an arsenal license? Are you going to go through an FFL to sell your private property? There are upwards of 75 million gun owners. If 1% of us refuse, then we will have nearly a million refuseniks. Gov.org simply doesn't have the manpower nor the firepower to enforce their edicts-- unless we are all sheep. We are just days past the anniversary of the quintessential AMERICAN response to gun grabbing. Ol' Sam Adams hung a plum on a tree and dared the king to snatch it. George couldn't resist, and 273 of his poachers were shot down in the road. America was born, in blood and pain. Now a new opportunity approaches. Will we be Americans, or will we be sheep? William Michael Kemp -------------------------- GUNSSAVELIVES(TM) IS A PRIVATE, UNMODERATED LIST GOVERNED BY AN ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY AVAILABLE FROM GSL-OWNER@LISTBOX.COM.
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"The US is probably exactly where many of the founding fathers would have liked it to have been. Some of them would have set George Washington up as a king and would have established a new monarchy. We really can't claim the founding Fathers as a basis for a limited role of government. Some of them did have the right idea. That's why we got the Bill of Rights. But the constitution of the US is basically a flawed document as it did not absolutely limit the role of government to the protection of individual rights. It left room for the growth of a centralized government and that is what the US got. Until a growing number of people in the US see this, and that there can be no real freedom under a government set up such as it is, things won't change."
John Robertson
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Date: Sun, 25 Apr 99 15:37PM MDT From: Texaswind@aol.com To: tc2k@tcrf.com Cc: PersonalFreedoms@onelist.com Subject: TC2K Re: From the govt. report at www.shadeslanding.com/firearms/waco.massacre.htm... In a message dated 4/25/99 12:42:10 PM Central Daylight Time, Callyberry writes: << SECESSIONISTS AND SEPARATISTS In fact, the passage of any compulsory national health care program might be the last straw not only for tax protesters, but for millions of Americans who still abhor what they consider to be socialist solutions. One indication of this is an October, 1993 column by libertarian conservative columnist Walter Williams: "Bill Clinton's efforts to forcibly impose socialized medicine on our nation has answered a question gnawing at me for quite some time. The question is whether we have reached a point where those of us who love liberty, private property rights, rule of law and the Constitution given us by our Founding Fathers should organize to make preparations to secede from the Union. . .The fundamental question totally ignored is whether federalized medicine is authorized by the U.S. Constitution. My thorough reading of our Constitution found no authorization for Mr. Clinton's plan. . .The only peaceful resolution is that of secession. . .After all, the right to part company is the most effective human safety valve, no matter whether it's divorce, quitting a job or secession. If there's a ban on parting company, somebody's likely to be treated like a dog. . .I hope that secession wouldn't be bloody. And it wouldn't be if the nation's socialists adopted the attitude of live and let live. But if they don't, liberty-loving people shouldn't roll over, play dead and take socialists' abuses without imposing high costs in return." [430] Williams read this column to millions of people when he filled in for vacationing talk show host Rush Limbaugh during the last week of 1993. During the show he explained that the moral justification for secession is found in the Declaration of Independence which contains in its first paragraph the sentence: "Whenever a government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it." On the December 28, 1993 show, Williams described the Utah-based Committee of 50 states, which is chaired by former governor Jay Bracken Lee. The Committee has proposed "The Ultimate Resolution," a resolution which--if endorsed by 38 state legislatures--would dissolve the entire federal apparatus when the federal debt reaches $6 trillion. The president, Congress and the federal judiciary would be fired. Each of the 50 states would become a separate and sovereign nation, free to come together to form a new confederation. The Ultimate Resolution contains a provision whereby any attempt to suspend or eliminate the U.S. Constitution would automatically cause the states to take back all the powers they have delegated to the federal government. [431] Williams endorsed this resolution. A number of ideological groups--anarchists, libertarians, greens, bioregionalists, states' rights-ists and African- American, Hispanic-American and white separatists--endorse secession or recommend the break up of the United States into a number of nations or into confederations of communities. Many citizens of Hawaii, Texas, Alaska, and Vermont already have strong secessionist sentiments. Should economic and political turmoil increase in the future, American secessionist movements might grow as well. Should Quebec break away from the rest of Canada, it doubtless will further inspire secessionists in this country.
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In The Federalist Papers, No. 47, James Madison labels that arrangement thusly: "The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether on one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."

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You don't have to obey ANY constitutional law becauase the Constitution does not belong to you unless you are a member or an associate member. ONLY these people are bound by that contract that they claim to be under via their consent. Think what the court said in the Padleford case and the Cruden v Neale case and you are on solid groundwhen NOT obeying a contract that does not pertain to you.
Big Al

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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:16:20 EDT From: ANTIFEDGOV@aol.com Subject:No Reason To Celebrate "Independence Day" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi again!! The calendar is counting us down to July 4, the 223rd anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence. Sadly, most Americans have no idea why July 4 is a date to commemorate. To them it means only a day off from work (or, this year, a three day holiday weekend), barbecues, mall sales, and the beach. Nearly as sad, I think, is that most individuals who call themselves "patriots" don't seem to realize that "Independence Day," is not a day which merits celebration of any kind. We tend to forget that the Founders of the United States of America were not "like us." They both feared and loathed the common people, i.e. those who depended mainly on their physical labor in order to get a living. Throughout the writings of Washington, Madison, Franklin, Adams, and, yes, even Jefferson are several negative and condescending references to "the masses." Independence from Great Britain was sold to the masses by the Founders as a way for them to gain "freedom," "rights," and "liberty." The truth of the matter, though, was that the Founders desired for themselves the monopolies, the privileges, and the power which was then in the hands of the Crown and the Parliament of the mother country. Every purported "injury" or "usurpation" alleged in the Declaration to have committed by King George III can be traced back to a desire of the Founders to themselves have the power and authority to commit these acts rather than let a far away government commit them. A mere four years after the treaty of peace was signed with Great Britain, many of these same Founders became the Framers of a Constitution which allowed a federal government to do every act which 11 years earlier they had termed an "injury" or "usurpation" of a "foreign" government. For instance: ---If the Declaration said that the people had the right to alter or abolish their form of government, by arms if necessary... .....the Constitution said that warring against the United States was treason, that the federal government could use the militia to "suppress insurrections," and that the full power of the United States would be used to protect the states against "domestic violence." ---If the Declaration said that "these Colonies" were suffering because the King had refused his assent to certain laws.... .....the Constitution said that it, treaties made under authority of the United States, and constitutional federal laws only were the "supreme law of the land"...."anything in the Constitution or laws of any state notwithstanding." ---If the Declaration said that the King had kept up standing armies in times of peace without the consent of the colonial legislatures.... .....the Constitution said that Congress alone, without the consent of the states, could keep up standing armies in times of peace. ---If the Declaration said that the King and Parliament "imposed taxes upon us without our consent".... .....the Constitution said that Congress could both "lay and collect taxes," which they could not do under the Articles of Confederation, without the consent of the states. ---If the Declaration said that the respective colonies were "free and independent states," and could "levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, and establish commerce, etc.".... .....the Constitution said that no state could "enter into any treaty, alliance or confederation," nor wage war without the consent of Congress, nor even enter into any agreement or compact with another state! Also, Congress was given the "supreme" right of regulating commerce "among the several states." So, as can be seen by these examples alone "independence" to the average American really means he has merely exchanged one master, or parent, for another. Today, rather than being ruled over by the "Mother England" spoken about in the Declaration of Independence, we Americans today are ruled over by the "Big Brother" deliberately created by the United States Constitution--and the authors of each of these historical documents intended it to be just that way. So, please don't celebrate "Independence Day" this weekend--for there really is absolutely nothing to celebrate. Sincerely, Ed Bruning (ANTIFEDGOV@aol.com) --------------------------------------------------------------- "When all government, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the Center of all Power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated." THOMAS JEFFERSON 1821- In a letter to Gideon Granger. Writings of Thomas Jefferson. --------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Bruning - The Stock Market is a Fraud

Ed Bruning - The United States Constitution: Exploding the Myths

Ed Bruning - Gene... Fantastic Anti-Federalist Site!

David Neilson - Our Mythology Needs Improvement

David Neilson - What the Bill of Rights Have Become

David Neilson - The Bill of No Rights

David Neilson - The Price They Paid - The Signers of the Declaration of Independence

Gregory at the ekklesia

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James Montgomery - Old Emails

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Burney - The American revolution was a notable change


The "Constitution" Delusion - Part I, by James Hazel

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