Drew, I am sorry. But I cannot agree with you that the lawyers, judges and government are our enemies. When you make statements like that, you become part of the problem instead of the solution. It does us no good to take on the establishment in such a negative manner that has no hope of succeeding. Your entitled to your opinions, and that I would always support you on. But I do not have to agree with them. I resent the fact that we have a system of Family Law that is broke, but to blame all lawyers, all judges and the government is insane. If we choose our legislators more carefully, or became pro active in the making of our laws. We would have fewer problems with the Family Law system. It evolved, it was not a group of Lawyers, Judges and coconspirators from the government that created this mess, but a gradual evolvement. If noncustodial parents united, and started offering positive choices for are government leaders, lawyers and judges, would that not be a better solution? We need all us to unite, but we have to develop the techniques that while sometimes very slow, are winning methods for change. Name calling is not one of them. Tim McVey tried taking on the government establishment, and he killed babies and innocent people in the process. Where did it get him? And what's more, he may have set back any realistic effort to reform government for years. I am 55, and I can remember going into any government building in the land, no metal detectors and such. Now we have a bunch of crazies out there and we don't need to sound like them if we want to succeed and changing the system. I hope your not offended and understand where I am coming from. Your views are important, but you can't fix a truck by I am not saying that there are not some good ideas amoung your statements, but in my humble opinion, your fundamental thesis is in error. Respectfully submitted, Mike Bennington National Congress for Fathers and Children Florida Chapter President From: Date: Fri Dec 29, 2000 9:04pm Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Christmas Visitation Denial In a message dated 12/29/2000 6:31:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, pulsar6@yahoo.com writes: "So, if we have a father who refuses to pay child support, or does not show an active interest in his children's development, we will not help him if this information is found out." Rick, your taking my statement out of context. This is what I said, "We promote responsible parents, both Mom and dad. So, if we have a father who refuses to pay child support, or does not show an active interest in his children's development, we will not help him if this information is found out. We will, however, attempt to encourage him to chance his ways and be both financial and emotional support to his children. I could go on, but I think you understand where I am coming from." Now, let me elaborate. Certainly you not willingly withholding child support when you can't pay it do to personal financial considerations. And secondly, you not willing withholding emotional support from your children if circumstances prevent it. I am talking mainly, but not exclusively, about those dads, and they are out there, that willing bed down a women, impregnate her, and then take no responsibility for the child he helped to create. I will fight just hard for reasonable child support as opposed to unaffordable child support, and fight even harder yet for the more important issue of visitation and active participation in your child's life. I hope that clears up my comments and your misunderstanding of same. But, in case I have not, let me elaborate some more. You continued in your e-mail as follows: "Mike; I am one of those fathers that have not been able to really support his own children as I would loved to because of several good reasons:1)Lack of decent paying jobs in the Orlando, FL. area 2) Suffering from "manic-depression" and not knowing it until 1996. I have pulled myself out of the gutter and thanks to medications I have been able to land the first good job of my adult life." Rick, let me interject that I to have not paid my court ordered share of child support, and for both the reasons you have stated. Poor paying jobs, if I were lucky to find one that matched my level of experience and education, and depression of my own. I have never been diagnosed with depression, but no one has to tell me if I am or I am not. I have not spoken with my children in over 8 years nor seen them in over 5 years and they live in the same county as I do. "Not all fathers have been able to be as lucky as you and many others to have "normal" lives filled with good well paying jobs." Rick, you have made an assumption here, my life is far from normal as I have stated above. "I have been forced to leave FL." And I am considering doing the same thing, but it is difficult doing so since my legal fight is here where my children are. "because of the lousy court system and their intentions of putting me in jail for money owed without taking in consideration how hard I tried to pay child support. While I am threatened with jail and more jail my ex-wife is free of worries and denies all contact with my children. A poor man in FL or anywhere in the US is a non-person. Rick, your right on this issue, and also right in that no where in the entire US is the system working. I have been jailed in California for three weeks while my business (self-employed) went under. All because I quit paying child support when the money ran out. Her in Florida, save an NCFC attorney by the name of Harvey Spinowitz, of Clearwater, I would have spent more time in jail as I was ordered to pay a purge amount that would have forced me to sell my $250 truck, my $500 worth of clothes and furniture and cash in my $90 worth of savings for next months rent. You have seen no doubt the cartoons that show a man with a barrel around his torso, being held up with suspenders. Well, my case would have left me in much the same way except I could not afford the barrel. "I am bitter to the thousand power for the unfairness of the system. My son has problems at school, my daughter thinks I abandoned her and their mother changes the phone number to an unlisted one because of money owed by me not because I am bad father. Can I fight against all these injustices that same way a man with money to pay a lawyer can? No way!! I'm in this fight with you but I have a lot more to fight against than you. I am not so sure Rick. But how much we each have to fight for is not near as important as that we fight together. What can I do to help you and where are you located? Are you still in Florida? But, try to leave the bitterness behind, it will only drag you down. "How can you prove that I did not want to pay child support, Mike? Would you deny me help or advice just because I owe money to my children? If you answer yes you are as bad as the FL. court system." Rick, I think you know my answer by now if you have read this far. And as far as you or any other parent, Mom or dad, there word is all I have to go on and that is good enough for me unless inconclusive evidence to the contrary surfaces. "Mike, I have to deal with my mental health on a day to day basis. As you might imagine my problem carries a stigma, so being a divorced father. My main question is are you an "elitist"? Are you in this fight for those that have a $0.00 debt in your child support account? The only way that I can bring my debt to zero is by winning the lottery, but harder still is the recovery of the past 11 yrs without my children. Who is going to give me that time back, Mike?" Your arrearages are no more an issue with me than my $60,000 plus arrearages should be with others. The issue is willingness and ability and nothing more. I hope I am making myself clear. And a footnote. My divorce was in California. A judge there ordered me to pay $250 per child ($500) in child support. An amount I could not afford, but not entirely unjust. But then, he ordered me to pay another $300 child care to have a third party provide day care when I was self employed and capable of watching my own children when there mother was not available. Yes, Rick, there is no fairness, let alone justice in the family court system, at least no like there should be. "I think we are in two different groups, Mike. I want equality for everyone. Even for those that for whatever reason do not want to be just. As a former Marine I learned to fight for all the peoples of this country. For all! If you are not willing to fight for everyone please get out of the way and let someone else take charge of the offensive. Respectfully, Rick Batiz" Rick, I think you might now want to reevaluate your statement on two different groups. We are in the same group. What is important to learn though, is that there is probably very little we can do for ourselves, but if we keep up the fight, we can change the system so our sons and daughters don't have to fight the same battles because of the same injustices. I some times use the same analogy. I spent four years in the US Navy and three tours of duty in Vietnam. I was supposedly fighting for democracy. But little did I know, that my rights as a father, or should I say lack there of, paralleled the same few rights that the Vietnamese had under both regimes in the North and the South. So much for democracy. And one other note Rick. No need for any of us to move over. Their are plenty of issues and more room for all of us to "take charge of the offensive." Mike Bennington National Congress for Fathers and Children Florida Chapter President In a message dated 12/31/2000 11:24:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, larabian@pacifier.com writes: > Dear Howard - > Please join the fight, but not through law school. I considered taking > the bar exam, but it doesn't help to become a member of the British > Accredited Registry (bar association). They ARE the problem. > > Lorri, why discourage him. Sure they are part of the problem. All the > better reason to join them. Then work at influencing them, changing their > hearts. If we can make changes within the system armed insurrection is all > that is left, unless you have another idea. > If you really dig, and do your homework, you will find that in most > states at some point the bar assoc has supplanted laws which were written > specifically to keep them out of other branches of government (legislative, > executive). Our courts of due process, guaranteed by the constitution, have > become military courts under the "state of emergency" which our country has > never un-declared since 1933, overseen by judges who are bar association > members. In these courts, we have NO constitutional rights, and our > children are presumed to be the property of the state. And we, not knowing > this, go away in shock after court, wondering what the hell happened. Lorri, no offense, but this is a load of crap. Weather or not this is true, it has or has had no impact on the way courts treat divorce. > We need to DEMAND our rights back, our children back, our country back, > or we will have nothing. People are now doing this, and some of us are > finally winning. First, you must be prepared to have everything you were > taught in public school challenged and proven to be a farce, and if you can > handle that, you may be prepared for this fight. And Lorri, how and who do we make these demands to? We have a system, admittedly broke at time for redressing grievances. It is the courts, and when they fail us, the legislature needs to know that current laws need to be strengthened or thrown out. Just how to you plan on circumventing these organizations and get things changed? It's not possible. > In my case, I have learned overwhelming amounts in the past 8 months, > and I am almost ready to begin filing administrative claims for damages > against the agents at fault, who will also be named in a RICO suit in > federal court (a modification of my previous filing, which will give the > guilty NO wiggle room or loopholes). > There are groups which are willing to help with legal details, and I > can forward info to you as I get it. We do need to organize, but be ready > to be compared to the Unibomber if you accuse the guilty. > Lorri > > The Unibomber may be a little far fetched, but you will look like the > fringe and we don't need to look like the fringe when we are the mainstream. > > Mike Bennington > National Congress for Fathers and Children Tony, how so? How are you prevented from representing yourself? But worth mentioning, "the man who represents himself, has a fool for a client." But realistically, I know that it is expensive and not everyone has the ability to hire an attorney let alone find one who has your best interest at heart. But when you find one, ask him to join NCFC so we can promote his practice and turn other noncustodial parents on to him. Mike Bennington National Congress for Fathers and Children Florida Chapter President